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Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher
The British Empire resulted in many benefits for the colonies, giving them a bureaucracy and government that would have taken far longer to establish without the British presence.
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Yes, without a doubt the British Empire resulted in many benefits for the colonies - but a bureaucracy and government, especially in the transformed state that was handed back over, (to most sub-saharan states especially) was not one of them. The last 50 years of sub-saharan dictatorship, pestilence and downright 'thugocracy' masquerading as democaracy is testament to that. Having grown up in West Africa over 14 years I could go on about this particular issue for ... well, centuries - if I had the longevity.
But suffice for me to say this, (don't get me wrong I know you did not make this particular statement in an outright derogatory or even racist fashion), - practically all ex-colonies DID have bureaucracies and effective governance pre-colonialisation. And it tends to strike at best (in my view) of ignorance when people make statements like this and at worst of, well, the dreaded 'r' word which allow me to repeat myself I don't accuse you of. Remember that in the Gold Coast (now Ghana) for example Baden Powell (him of the scouts) finally defeated the Ashanti only at the turn of the last century. They had their own Kingdom, Army, Government, Bureaucracy... and they don't now (well not in the same way) - thanks to colonialism.
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Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher
There is only so long that the former colonies can go on blaming the British for their internal problems. They are responsible for their own government and have been for a long time. In fact, I doubt that they do blame the British at all any more; it is only the imperial apologists who bring the issue up.
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Here, here. Spot on. People in the colonies no longer give two hoots about the (negative) colonial impact on their recent history. They mostly know it just does not wash. Cue Serria Leone - they practially begged for salvation through the former colonialists (UK) from their own bloodthirsty (in more ways than one) country men. Doe, Taylor, Thompson... Some politicians however use this 'colonial responsiblity' thing (no need to name names) for inferior-strategy brownie-pointing. I'm afraid I have to admit though that for a lot of the unsophisticated, largely uneducated populations in some of these nations there is a significant (though not the majority) number of lazy thinkers who subscribe to this weak "pass-the-buck" mode of thinking.
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Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher
I think that is is unfair to blame Britain for slavery; that was the normal behaviour at the time, throughout the world, and was certainly present in most areas prior to inclusion in the Empire. Britain, however, was one of the first nations to abolish it and took very strong steps to eradicate it in other nations.
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Yes. It was "normal behaviour at the time" and to be honest with all of you it is STILL "normal behaviour" to some extent, depending where you live today. OK people are not being shackled to girders on container ships and shipped to California to work as domestic servants. But I can assure you that there are 'employment' relationships that are considered 'OK' or 'Normal' today in many third-world, middle-eastern, and even Western countries that are pushing the boat out a bit. Remember the Chinese Cockle pickers at Morcambe Bay?
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Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher
Without the Empire, Europe may well have fallen completely under Nazi control in 1940/41. Indians, Australians, Canadians and many other countries helped to fight against the Axis during the war, long before the USA ever joined in. It was the British Empire and Commonwealth that brought all those nations together. If it had been Britain alone, Operation Sealion may have become a reality.
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My Uncle (Dad's older brother) was 15 when he was told to jump INTO phpbb_the back of a truck with a load of other boys from his school to go and watch a film. A few weeks later he found himself facing Japanese soldiers in Burma with the Royal West African Frontier Force. (He's still alive and kicking if you want to verify my claims). You are absolutely right. We are not told today how much the Empire contributed to preventing Hitler's Germany from realising its ambitions - and in my opinion many 'lesser' nations are not given credit where it is due. I personally believe that there are (ex-empire) geographical regions of the world, mainly commonwealth countries today, that the UK should be influencing, mutually benefitting from and working with, in much a similar way as the French do with many of their ex-colonies.
And yes, I also believe there is much equity to be gained from that than the EU